Preview 3 new Licensing

Discussion in 'Plesk Automation Suggestions and Feedback' started by GregorL, Mar 1, 2012.

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  1. bdowne01

    bdowne01 Kilo Poster

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    Correct, all www and mail--we use physical boxes due to the load requirements. We have ESXi installs, but only use those for DNS.
     
  2. StephenE

    StephenE Kilo Poster

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    ok, there is little these days a virtual server can't do even on load, the new machines scream :) Just saying :D
     
  3. bdowne01

    bdowne01 Kilo Poster

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    I'm wondering if you see the flaw in your argument in which it "works for everyone". You are assuming everyone sells on volume. We sell on capacity--our customers are big places with big advertising sites. They push huge bandwidth and disk I/O--both are not good things for a VM environment.

    In that low-customer, high-util type of situation this licensing model is junk.
     
  4. StephenE

    StephenE Kilo Poster

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    a properly designed VM environment can push more IO and bandwidth than a dedicated server, just saying. No it doesn't work for everyone, but the thoughts about IO being more limited in VM are not exactly the case anymore. You can scale greater on storage, without downtime on a virtual setup than on a hardware machine.

    Plus if you have people pushing that much, is $35 really that much, yes it is more than now, but you should be turning enough to make it work for you, you can even be open and honest to your clients and explain a price hike and you need to pass along a modest fee increase for that. Then you can work toward the next PPA released nginx cluster and offer them CDN services to boot!
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  5. dynamicnet

    dynamicnet Kilo Poster

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    Greetings;

    We, and the overwhelming majority of our customers fit bdowne01's business model.

    The current pricing works best for small to medium businesses.

    We would love to keep it that way.

    Thank you.
     
  6. StephenE

    StephenE Kilo Poster

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    Virtually every Hsphere hoster is an SMB.
    We are very small. SMB sector is up to 99 employees, and Hsphere has nothing to offer to most of them today, as it is now.
     
  7. bdowne01

    bdowne01 Kilo Poster

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    This is just flat wrong. The only time I've ever seen that to be true was under IBM's AIX with VIO hosted LUNs to LPARs, and that's simply because IBM's POWER platform has a hardware-level virtualization feature, unlike Vmware's software hypervisor. That and they also have a fat copper bus between CECs to cut the latency down to almost zero.

    Stephen, while I don't fundamentally disagree with you on the licensing issues (I only want ||'s to honor their faithful existing customers), I do have issue with someone making statements that could potentially lead someone awry... Virtualization is something I've been doing a very, very long time (been using VMWare since "workstation" was released in the mid 90's); someone coming along and reading this thread could very well make a decision based in part on your comments--please be sure to back them up with reasonably verifiable facts before flaunting conjecture.
     
  8. dynamicnet

    dynamicnet Kilo Poster

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    Greetings:

    "I only want ||'s to honor their faithful existing customers"

    Same and Agreed.

    Thank you.
     
  9. TeleType

    TeleType Bit Poster

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    I subscribe this: "I only want ||'s to honor their faithful existing customers".

    But I'd also like to point out that using a per server licensing schema for a multiserver hosting platform like H-sphere and the new product is a nonsense.
    It will constraint the power of the platform 'cause every company will tend to limit their server number to keep costs low.
    The great power of h-sphere is that you can have, virtualized or not, one server optimized for every use (standard servers plus one server with PHP 4, another with Frontpage just for the few customer that use it, another dedicated to a special hi-performance plan and so on).
    This opens new markets for small business 'cause we can satisfy our customer needs better than with just a bunch of standardized servers.

    I vote for a per account license but my worries are about my role in the market, non about money.
    Right now I have a few customers that pay the right price for serious support and great assistance.
    I'll never manage tens of thousands customers, I'd not like to become a mass hoster fighting just for price.
    Cheers
    Oto Tortorella
     
  10. StephenE

    StephenE Kilo Poster

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    We've come a long ways in virtualization since VMWare Workstation. I am not here to debate on its merits or not, but today's computers, like a sandy bridge xeon or the AMD bulldozer platforms, along with other enterprise grade hardware you can have a virtual platform that far exceeds the 'hardware' of old and gives you far better on the fly scaling than any hardware alone, giving you a hardware independence and level of service you cannot achieve as readily on hardware directly.
    I used to think that moving to the virtual environments was a fad and something that was overblown and performance would suffer, making many IO issues and the like. I then started using it in small scale and expanded out, it exceeded every expectation and brought new levels of service and manageability that can easy your workload, and increase your bottom line as a business.
    I never would have seen myself using virtualization to the level I am today back 2 years ago, and I was a huge proponent of VPS for a long time, but VPS is a far from from a virtual infrastructure that is possible, reliable and scalable now.
    Back in 07 I helped VMWare to get a direction on hosting with advice given, as at the time they had a license that actually prevented it from being used by hosts officially. We weren't/aren't even using their software extensively and they listened, and came to market with solutions aimed at hosting.

    With today's virtualization you can even expose your physical hardware for storage IO to a direct path into the virtual layer, gaining many of the management benefits of virtualizing while have the speed of the raw IO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  11. SteveITS

    SteveITS Tera Poster

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    It is a challenge. We've been looking to completely revamp our system, thus looking at H-Sphere, Plesk, and others, and this is disappointing news. I will have to dig more into PPA to see how well it supports moving accounts around but if someone wants to just get started with an infrastructure of cp, web, mail, and db servers that is four expensive licenses for the first hosting account (have they said the cost is comparable to Plesk per server?). I am not clear that it is possible to easily split everything apart after starting with just one server. Plus for each "dedicated" server account that would be one more license, for each account?

    It would seem that Parallels may be targeting hosting companies that can ramp up sales quickly, migrate from H-Sphere, etc. If we cannot migrate our existing accounts (however they are hosted) into PPA and turn off older servers then the startup cost is high.

    I would agree that H-Sphere seems very inexpensive to get started, but that encourages hosts to get started. Perhaps Parallels could consider a mixed model, say $xx per account and $yy per server node? Or keep the small per-account model but charge a relatively large flat fee to get started, assuming most of the support questions come while the host is just setting up?
     
  12. SteveITS

    SteveITS Tera Poster

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    I suppose it would mean that a VPS is not separately licensed if it is created through the panel, via Virtuozzo.
     
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